Or you are solely focused on YOUR point that you completely miss others'.

Uh, I've conceded your point multiple times, you obviously didn't see it. I've just been trying to get to a point where you understand what I'm saying, because it sounds like you're not.

That has been tried, and to no avail.

Has Israel tried every possible option? Have they pulled their people out of the west bank and gaza?

Same with Israel's concessions for peace but yet you continue to say if Israel would just try harder the results will change. 

No they haven't tried every possible option mainly because the UN and EU and US and yada yada, won't let them put a stipulation, stop firing rockets or else!

Not necessarily, history has shown that after time, the citizens will rise up against their government and say enough is enough.

Hmm

Yes, Israel has, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel%27s_unilateral_disengagement_plan , what more do you want Israel to do?

I'm not saying that Israel has done everything right.  They've made many mistakes.  They never intended on creating a pool of hatred over there.  Did you know that Israel had been suppling PA with  80% of their gas and electricity needs until just about 2 years ago.  That's when the wall that was dividing Egypt from PA was destroyed because the PA made sure to cut everything else to make Israel look bad. Did you know that Israel was providing that since 1993?  You may say that they were getting paid for that well not exactly.  Most of the time the PA either didn't pay at all OR paid a small fraction of the price.  On top of that the PA did charge for the all the consumation BUT did not pay Israel.  That sounds real fair.  Also, the States media failed to mention that the wall was contructed BY EGYPT because Egypt DOES NOT WANT any immigrants.   

Hence why Egypt killed a lot of Darfur refugees.Israel asborbed over 500 Darfur refugees : http://web.israelinsider.com/Articles/Politics/11881.htm Israel also absorbed over 2,800 other illegals from that region.  Most of those refugees are muslims. Did you know out of all the Arab world Israel TOOK in by far more refugees. 

You can continue to say Israel will do this and Israel doesn't do this.  You already admitted through your own admission that the PA won't do anything.  Hamas does not want peace.  Fatah and Hamas aren't the same groups.  The one is a nationalist movement (Fatah) and Hamas is a religious movement. Fatah was seen as greedy (which they were) and that's why Hamas got pushed in. 

Have you noticed any trends in what I've been writting?  Why hasn't ANY ARAB COUNTRY HELPED the PA? WHY?  They only support they ever get is weapons. The Darfur refugees incident was not the only time that Arab countries refused to help another muslim or arab and it will not be the last time as well.

Maybe its time that either the PA started not sending rockets/sucide attackers over AND/OR maybe some Arab nation should step up and help the PA.  When I say help I mean with Humantarian aid.  In the Middle-East, Jews and Christians are the minority therefore there is a there should be a higher rate of Arabs helping Arabs.

Yes, in 1948 (when the Jews were driven out of those regions) and in 1968 (when Israel offered those territories in exchange for peace).

Is there a point when we can all agree that this didn't work and that we should stop trying what doesn't work?

I also have a fundamental, ideological problem with solutions that require the death or relocation of a Jewish population.

Let's, after 2000 years, try a solution that doesn't require such, just for the heck of it.

Also, ALL the land was always Palestine, just as it was always Israel. The two are two words for the same land. "Eretz Yisrael" is the Hebrew word, used in Bible and Quran; "Palestina" is a Latin word, used by pagan Romans and others who don't like Jews.

(Ironically, the Latin "Palestina" derives from the Hebrew and Phoenician word for Greek invaders who lived around Gaza 3000 years ago. The word means "invaders".)

a few years ago israel sent troops to clear all israeli settlements from the arab territories, people were given twice the going rate for the houses and relocated, those that refused were tear gassed and taken by force. At the end not a single israeli settlement was left. It was a final "move towards peace and coexistance"... of course it didn't work, they kept shooting rockets and sending suicide bombers.

Imagine if the US sent its army to remove all texans from texas to give it back to the mexicans, including having the military use tear gas on FAMILIES that refused to relocated and drag them away in cuffs? And then bulldoze the homes so they don't come back?

It was an extremely radical move meant to either garner peace once and for all, or to prove that the problem is not israel, not the settlements, but the fact that their religion calls for the destruction and conquest of all infidels.

It was a stupid move because, in this world, proving that it's not the Jews' fault is impossible.

And I STILL don't understand why the Arab state (if they ever decide to found their stupid state) has to be Jew-free and why the entire world seems to think that they are entitled to a ethnically cleansed territory.

Is Israel also entited to throw out all the Arabs? I wouldn't support that. I want to keep the Druze and the Bedouins at least. (Israel owes them a stable, rich country. That was the deal.)

The one thing that I don't understand is people (from the States) say that Israel is an illegal state or that they are occupying land illegally.

In reality, Israel has been trying to follow all the U.N.'s attempt to give the PA land. Both times the PA renigged on it.  On a technicality wouldn't the PA be illegally occupying the land?  If someone was selling a house and I agreed to pay for it.  Its not offically mine until I get the title.  If I change my mind on purchasing the house I can't just decide to stay in that house.

Why is the burden constantly being put on Israel to help or to do something?  I don't see any Arab country jumping to help.  Its not like the PA is surrounded by non-arab/muslim countries.

All land is automatically Arab land unless claimed by a non-Jewish country.

Yes... it is the absurdity of it all... israel is asked to help the palastinians perform ethnic cleansing of their "territories" while israel itself is a multicultural free nation with a sizeable arab citizenship that holds spots on congress, military, etc... 

Yes, and it's a good thing too that Israel is multicultural. The Zionists have been working and fighting for this for a hundred years.

For some reason western liberals are all for multiculturalism, except in the middle east where everything has to be an Arab monoculture.

If the other countries in the middle east and north-Africa were like Israel, with equal rights for Arabs and natives, and with equal rights for men and women, and with equal rights for Muslims and Christians, and with equal rights for homosexuals and heterosexuals. The list goes on and on; and liberals hate it all.

*sighs* I hate generalizing, because it serves no useful purpose and only shows ignorance. Freakin' A, such is life.

~Alderic

Hey Lucas, I was told to give you a message.

"tell Lucas I've been watching and he still lies like a hairy old rug."

That is a stupid thing to say when it comes to politics.

Designations like "liberal" and "conservative" are based on common opinions held by the members of those groups. The entire American election system works on the basis that there are, in general, two different opinions competing.

And the pro-Arab-imperialist position is indeed a common trait among the left.

Heck, the German socialists even have a group among their own dedicated to fighting the latent and open anti-Semitism among German socialists:

http://bak-shalom.de/

So while it is true that not ALL left-wingers are anti-Semites, it is certainly a problem that so many are. And while you attempt to solve that problem by opposing generalisations (and hence focussing on the exceptions), this left-wing group (who are a part of the German Socialist party) focus on the other part of the problem, the non-exceptions, the GENERAL left-winger.

Here is an English-language article written by the spokesman of the BAK Shalom:

http://bak-shalom.de/index.php/2008/12/10/jerusalem-post-let-the-left-go-forward/

Luckily their attitude towards generalisations was also one of hatred. But they didn't hate that it was pointed out, but the fact that there was something to point out.

We spoke about this before. How many liberal protesters do you see on the streets demanding that Arab countries end slavery or allow for homosexuals to marry? Well, there are lots of liberal protesters on the street protesting the "occupation" or even the existence of Israel.

When it comes to Israel, many liberals forget the values they claim to believe in. Arab nationalism, for liberals, outweighs all liberal values. That is a generalisation. But it is also a problem for liberalism.