Do you have to be called Messianic Jews to do this?  I know Jews whom I consider Messianic Jews in that they are believing Jews in the Messiah that came.  But they do not observe the Torah lifestyle but the Christian one.  What do you call them? 

Two  men that I've mentioned here and are world reknown....Marvin Rosenthal and Gary Cohen.  To me they have helped me so much in the understanding of the Jewish faith outside of my book knowledge and the little experience I've collected along the way, even though I have Jewish blood in me. 

Marv is giving us a full presentation of the Sedar Meal next week to show us the symbolism behind it and how it looked forward to the cross.  His book "Feasts of the Lord" is excellent and very informative. 

Good news on the possible de-regulation. 

I know what Mesianic Jews are. But if you believe that Jesus was the Messias, you are Christians, even if you kept Jewish cultural customs.

I think we have four categories here:

1. Jews: ethnic Jews who believe in Judaism

2. Messianic Jews: ethnic Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and in Judaism

3. Christian Jews: ethnic Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that Christianity replaced Judaism

4. Christians: non-Jews who believe that Jesus was the Messiah and that Christianity replaced Judaism (or did not)

The first three are Jews, the last three are Christians. The first two are cultural Jews, a group that also includes Jewish atheists.

I wouldt tweak this a bit Leauki. 

I would say, for me, and the "biblical" Christians (Jews or Gentiles) who study the scriptures that we wouldn't go so far as to say that Judaism was replaced but that Christianity was the new Covenant and an extension of Judaisim or the Old Covenant. 

For example,  David's covenant with God didn't displace Moses Covenant with God.  Moses covenant with God didn't displace Abraham's Covenant with God.  Abraham's covenant with God did not displace Noah's covenant with God...etc.  It's a progression.  God is moving forward thru time. 

I think the Jews that become Christians either call themselves Messianic Jews or Christian Jews basically saying they recognize that Jesus was the expected Messiah. 

A Christian is just a "Christ follower" whether they are Jew or Gentile.   So a Jew  who is  a Christ follower doesn't make him less Jewish.  I think that's what Paul was trying to get across to the Jewish Christians in the first century.  He said he was a Jew among Jews and had been a Pharisee of all Pharisees, well trained in the Jewish law and knew all the customs and traditions. 

That's why I added "or did not".

Ok. So there are both gentile and Jewish Christians who believe that Christianity replaced Judaism and there are both gentile and Jewish Christians who believe that Christianity added to Judaism but that Judaism continues to exist as a set of practices given to the Jewish people by G-d.

Yes, and I think the difference between Messianic Jews and Christian Jews is that Messianic Jews believe that their faith is a Jewish faith, whereas Christian Jews are integrated into non-Jewish Christian organisations.

And to make it more complex, there are Christ followers who believe Jesus was the Messiah and those who believe he was both the Messiah and the son of G-d (or G-d Himself or some combination of it). Among the latter you then have Uniterians and Trinitarians.

Agreed KFC, this is 'stacking' of covenents.  But Christianity

I can agree to these definitions.

taking Leauki's 4 definitions and put them on a line graph I would say KFC, you are between 2 and 3?

I would say so. 

hmmmm not sure AD......I guess I would define myself more as a Christian with some Jewish blood but I'm so mixed up it's hard to say what I am mostly.  Most people think I'm either Italian or Indian because I have olive skin color and dark hair.  I am both of those nationalities as well as French and English. 

Of course I don't like the world "replaced" nor do I think many Christians like me would either.  The Catholics like Lula would say so and anyone that has even the slightest anti-semitism running thru their veins.  But God never never intended to replace the Jews and you can see that from his covenant and conversations with Abraham. 

This is precisely why I would put you in between.  You don't believe in the replacement aspect and do look at the feasts (at least familiarized yourself).  But there are also some Christian aspects that you agree with as well (ie Sunday).

There is no in-between. She is either trying to be a practicing Jew or not.

Messianic Jews are, apparently, genetic* Jews, practicing Jews, but not believing Jews, because their faith is Christianity.

Christian Jews are genetic Jews, but not practicing or believing Jews.

As far as I know and if the line is through mothers, KFC is a "Christian Jew", i.e. a "Christian", where her Jewish nationality has no influence in her faith or practices. But she is not a "replacement" Christian who believes that G-d has abandoned genetic/practicing/believing Jews.

Jesus himself was, if he believed what later Christians said about him, a Messianic Jew, since he was a genetic and practicing Jew, but not a believing Jew any more. (Until he decided that he was the Messiah and/or son of G-d, he was also a believing Jew.)

(*"genetic" includes converts and Jewish descendants of converts)

I'll post an article soon with a table that differentiates between the Jewish people (Hebrew-speaking people from Canaan and their descendants and accepted), the Jewish religion (set of laws and rituals), and the Jewish faith (set of beliefs), and will also include Muslims and Zoroastrians plus a few different Christian sects if I can figure out the differences between Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox in time.

(And the Ethiopian emperor will take the cake: He was a Christian, a descendant of King Salomon, not a Jew, and the Rastafarians think he was Jesus reborn and G-d personified which he himself disagreed with.)

I think the whole thing can be sorted according to prayer day:

Friday: Muhammed's followers, since Friday Jews and Christians could come and listen

Saturday: Jews, since Saturday is the 7th day

Sunday: Christians, since Sunday is the 1st day, except some sects that embrace Saturday instead

Messianic Jews follow a Saturday religion.

You can even sort countries according to their weekend definitions:

Thursday-Friday: Islamic countries with little or no Jewish influence

Friday-Saturday: Islamic and Jewish countries with both cultures present at some point

Saturday-Sunday: western (mostly Christian and Jewish influence) and secular (Turkey)

Friday only: Iran

Sunday only: old-style western (Christian influence only)